Curse

unienaule · Feb 26, 2007, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Just because he's a game editor, doesn't make his "oh noes ima ragequit guildwars" any more important than anyone elses. Also, it seems a lot of people don't understand the difference between The Realm of TORMENT and the Domain of ANGUISH. I guess it's not really a flamewar, or even close, so I can't close it, but seriously, lern2read. RoT != DoA.

manitoba1073 · Feb 26, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Your right people really should learn to read. He's talking about
1. RoT
2. Not that its hard but that its annoying and not worth it

Hell Raiser · Feb 26, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

People who are defending him (and actually everyone, but more specifically the ones who are defending him), quick thing.

Imo it is not that RoT is in fact annoying and not worth it, it is how he handled thinking/knowing this. He obviously knows his voice is louder because more people trust his word, and he did not need to go attacking Guild Wars the way he did (creating a blog instead of talking around the forums/ingame)

EPO Bot · Feb 26, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

It's not supposed to be pleasant.It's the realm of TORMENT damit!

How about the hell difficulty in Diablo2 then? If you tried to kill everything the game threw at you, it was TONS harder then Rot. But no one noticed, because they where all teleporting directly to Baal. And again...and again...into the infinite. And the Kurast chapter wast mostly skipped altogether wile it was the most detailed,largest and best looking place of them all.

People just want quick loot, but in GW all the loot has the same stats and of course they whine about stuff not being worth it.

And btw. Who needs magazines when you have the internet?

Chunk · Feb 26, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

I am a hardcore pve/pvp GW player. I have 2844 hrs over 14 months. 1450 of those hours are on my monk. Monk is my favorite profession because it is so versatile with heros or pugs. I will be playing until the servers are unplugged. I pains me to see the community failing though.

#1 reason:

No freedom in new campaigns; Prophecies is still bustling because you can hire someone to run you to most areas for the right price. Factions and Nightfall force you to grind if you want to create a new pve character. I don't find it fun being forced to go through every mission in Nightfall just to have access to all the areas (example. U must complete all missions to access worms.) I have 6 lvl 20 characters and don't play 5 because they don't have most of the towns in nightfall and factions.

#2 reason:

Needed updates and fixes unfulfilled; I seem to remember key things that were supposed to be fixed or added to the game to make the game playable.

For months when Prophecies came out people complained about Thunderhead Keep being glitched. Arenanet didn't fix the glitch but they made it less frequent. They released Factions and that took the spotlight off prophecies. Guess what, the THK bonus glitch is still there.

I also remember reading Gailes purple comments about how they were working on an auction house style update. A true auction house is a must in a game with so much gold and items. The search bar is completely useless unless you have a very popular item or material. A large chunk of the rewards in this game are gold weapons and offhands. With no efficient way to sell them most people get frustrated and merch them. For those of us that want rewards to equal the work, a few K of combined gold, weapons, and materials for hours of questing is not fun. (see DoA)

I remember Gaile saying that there would be a hero pet update in January. When last asked she said that it was low priority because of the next chapter. Last I checked I am still stuck with un-changeable and un-nameable pets.

Am I the only person who sees the failed logic here. If arena net is constantly blaming a lack of fixes and updates on new chapters, then they will never actually fix anything. That is why so many of the threads in guru are repeated over and over.

I am still spending 5+ hours a day on this game because the rest of it is so damn fun.

RTSFirebat · Feb 26, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Really now, he's talking about the Realm of Torment.

Yes it is harder then other areas of the game but the facts are very clear:

1. He got his ass handed to him in the Realm of Torment, not the Domain of Anguish.

2. The Realm of Torment is annoying, but not hard.

3. He clearly doesn't know how to manage aggro and most likely aggroed more then one mob patrol.

4. He raged quited like a typical noob.

Yep I said it, I called him a noob, because that is what he is. The Realm of Torment is not difficult. It takes time to cut and slash you way past large mob patrols, but with careful pulling its really easy.

Oh and his complaint about "cloning" mobs. Well he needs to learn to kill things faster.

I don't understand how anyone can defend him? He couldn't handle the Realm of Torment and raged quit, it's a simple as that. It's pretty sad to say the least.

Chunk · Feb 26, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Really now, he's talking about the Realm of Torment.

Yes it is harder then other areas of the game but the facts are very clear:

1. He got his ass handed to him in the Realm of Torment, not the Domain of Anguish.

2. The Realm of Torment is annoying, but not hard.

3. He clearly doesn't know how to manage aggro and most likely aggroed more then one mob patrol.

4. He raged quited like a typical noob.

Yep I said it, I called him a noob, because that is what he is. The Realm of Torment is not difficult. It takes time to cut and slash you way past large mob patrols, but with careful pulling its really easy.

Oh and his complaint about "cloning" mobs. Well he needs to learn to kill things faster.

I don't understand how anyone can defend him? He couldn't handle the Realm of Torment and raged quit, it's a simple as that. It's pretty sad to say the least.

He said it was hard enough to cease being fun. My question to you is this. How much time do you spend in RoT? Do you find RoT fun or a chore? The OP was a casual player. I am a hardcore pve'er in this game and I won't spend another second in RoT if I have to because the loot isn't worth it. I do however spend a lot of time in Southern Shiverpeaks where there is very little loot because its "FUN".
Don't even get me started on Factions. The replayability of that game is ziltch.

manitoba1073 · Feb 26, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Lets break this down for some of you, maybe some of you will finally get it.

-Not to sound overly melodramatic (and I'm really not trying to turn this blog into the "watch Ryan whine about trivial things" blog), but... well, **** this game. The more I play it, the more it just comes apart at the seams.-
[somewhat a rant more or less]

-I'm currently out in the Realm of Torment, one of the late-game areas in Guild Wars Nightfall. The quests here are beyond ridiculous--when I'm not getting repeatedly rez-killed by huge groups of demons (who have the power to clone themselves, I might add), I'm running eight million miles through hordes of monsters just to get to a damn quest-giver, who then sends me through areas with 2-3 patrol groups of 5+ powerful monsters all bunched up together, in such a way that you aggro the whole goddamn group no matter what you do (oh, and by the way--aggro radius in this game = completely arbitrary and in no way related to that little circle on the mini-map). It's like running an Olympic marathon, only to discover that your ultimate reward is a punch in the face.-
[well we all know how tight things are there and the problem that was with the aggro that was partially fixed]

-And what the hell are these quests good for? They aren't even tagged as "master" level quests, even though they're a hell of a lot harder than plenty of other quests that bear the "master" tag. No, they just give the standard 2,500 XP/200 gold reward. Oh boy!-
[do you guys feel that these rewards actually justify doing them? i know i dont]

-I'm really starting to wonder why I keep playing this game. I've often compared Guild Wars to Magic: The Gathering due to the way its skill system works; maybe it's about time I accepted the fact that this--like Magic--is a complete waste of my time. Repeatedly slogging through armies of uber-powerful monsters at -60 DP because I've spent the last two hours getting to a quest spot ain't fun.-
[well again anets way of making things supposedly difficult, cram tons of high powered stuff in a small area]

-EDIT: Also, for anyone who's questioning the integrity of my PVE abilities or my knowledge of the game (hi Guild Wars Guru people!): "You have played this character for 394 hours 9 minutes over the past 9 months. Across all characters, you have played for 661 hours 41 minutes over the last 21 months." I've been through the collective entirety of Prophecies, Factions, and (barring a portion of the Realm of Torment and some bonus mission goals) Nightfall, and I've unlocked a whole hell of a lot of skills. I've probably spent as much time experimenting with different kinds of skill combos and character builds as I have playing the game, and I certainly DID have to make some significant changes to my play style and hero builds to even get as far as I did in the Realm of Torment. I'm not slinging baseless hate here, folks.-
[well he has some exp more than most and less thean some, again i see no problems there, even someone id take along in a mission or two]

-EDIT #2: As expected, obviously the folks at NCsoft and ArenaNet are a little bummed out by what I've said here. So if, in the off-chance that anyone's interpreting this as some sort of personal attack or anti-ArenaNet agenda, let me just say that that's crazy talk. I'm upset for exactly the reasons I've described, and nothing more. The "cram as many overpowered mobs into as small a space as we can, don't scale rewards to difficulty, and make the quests themselves as inconvenient as possible in many cases" endgame logic just doesn't work for me--and, judging by some of the reactions in the comment thread here and on other websites--I'm not the only longtime Guild Wars player who feels this way.-
[this explains exactly why he wrote what he did enough said on that]

Now i have yet to see anyone who has put him down in this post a list of the drops they have gotten from any area in RoT. Well wheres your lists at.
Im quite sure i can give a fairly accurate guess what they will be. Numerous non max white drops maybe 2 purples and if ur really lucky even maybe a gold drop and then about finishing with around 1.3k gold total. Thats not including the quest rewards of 2500 xp and 200gp. Now a few may enjoy it but most people dont.

RTSFirebat · Feb 26, 2007, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunk

He said it was hard enough to cease being fun. My question to you is this. How much time do you spend in RoT? Do you find RoT fun or a chore? The OP was a casual player. I am a hardcore pve'er in this game and I won't spend another second in RoT if I have to because the loot isn't worth it. I do however spend a lot of time in Southern Shiverpeaks where there is very little loot because its "FUN".

Don't even get me started on Factions. The replayability of that game is ziltch.

Only the time I needed to do quests, cap some elites and make my way to towns and mission areas.

Basically no more time then I spend in any part of Elona or anywhere else for that matter.

Loot has never been that important to me, and to me the fact the RoT is difficult was refreshing compared to mowing down wave after wave of simple minded and weak AI.

RoT is the same reason lots of people rage quited at Thunderhead Keep and also the Ring of Fire Missions... and its not the loot or fun.

Its because it was more difficult then the rest of the game and couldn't handle or or adept to the mission to area.

Domino · Feb 26, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Adapt and improvise. If you're dying over and over again, re-think your strategy, change your party/skills/whatever.

Sometimes you have to be persistant to get something done... not cry like a small child when it doesn't work like you want it to.

There hasn't been one spot in GW where a decent group of guildies couldn't get the job done.

reetkever · Feb 26, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Only the time I needed to do quests, cap some elites and make my way to towns and mission areas.

Basically no more time then I spend in any part of Elona or anywhere else for that matter.

Loot has never been that important to me, and to me the fact the RoT is difficult was refreshing compared to mowing down wave after wave of simple minded and weak AI.

RoT is the same reason lots of people rage quited at Thunderhead Keep and also the Ring of Fire Missions... and its not the loot or fun.

Its because it was more difficult then the rest of the game and couldn't handle or or adept to the mission to area.

Except that RoT isn't difficult.

RoT is just so darned annoying to play in. The scenery is depressing, the monsters are cheap and annoying, the quests are worthless and lame area effects limit people's build's options. And IF by chance, you get killed thanks to an extra patrol sneaking in your aggro range, it's over, cause you'll get rezzed in the middle of a bunch of monsters again. If you die in THK, it's the same, but you can't compare a quest with a missio... What's the point in having res shrines at all then?

THK is just hard, because you need to know how to do it. Once you find the way to do THK, it's not hard anymore, and it's enjoyable. I still love doing THK with my guildies, in fact, I love the entire Southern Shiverpeaks area. I can do RoT without too much trobule as well... But why would I do it? Just being there p!sses me off somehow.

Etta · Feb 26, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I would like to know his skills set up, lightbringer rank, his heroes skills if indeed he played with them. ROT is hard, yes that's what make it an end game area.

But with a right set of skills on both you, your teammate be it heroes, pugs or guildies also with some understanding of the enemies in there can help make ROT easier.

661 hours 41 minutes over the last 21 months. IMO that's not alot, I knew a lot of my guildies who have triple or double that hours and still find ROT, hell even the area before it, hard to do. But they willing to ask for help, learn and listen.

If you can't cut it in ROT, then you'll have no hope in Gate of Madness, Abadon, and don't even think about DOA.

Lonesamurai · Feb 26, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

RoT, THK and Vizunah Square are there for one good reason...

To root out the idiots, thats why I enjoy the areas after that because there are less idiots around, they can't get past it, so they don't or they ragequit andthe game is a lot more peaceful, playable and enjoyable after these areas

EPO Bot · Feb 26, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Really now, he's talking about the Realm of Torment.

Yes it is harder then other areas of the game but the facts are very clear:

1. He got his ass handed to him in the Realm of Torment, not the Domain of Anguish.

2. The Realm of Torment is annoying, but not hard.

3. He clearly doesn't know how to manage aggro and most likely aggroed more then one mob patrol.

4. He raged quited like a typical noob.

Yep I said it, I called him a noob, because that is what he is. The Realm of Torment is not difficult. It takes time to cut and slash you way past large mob patrols, but with careful pulling its really easy.

Oh and his complaint about "cloning" mobs. Well he needs to learn to kill things faster.

I don't understand how anyone can defend him? He couldn't handle the Realm of Torment and raged quit, it's a simple as that. It's pretty sad to say the least.

Exactly!
Many truths, one reality.

If i was Anet, i would allow ten player parties in Rot and twenlve player groups in Doa. That would make most people happy. Exept the ones who post here of course.

Zehnchu · Feb 26, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

People who are defending him (and actually everyone, but more specifically the ones who are defending him), quick thing.

Imo it is not that RoT is in fact annoying and not worth it, it is how he handled thinking/knowing this. He obviously knows his voice is louder because more people trust his word, and he did not need to go attacking Guild Wars the way he did (creating a blog instead of talking around the forums/ingame)

There this thing called freedom of speech everyone has that right, and just like everyone else deal with it. Talk about a double standard, practice what you preach. Discussing things on forums is about as helpful eating soup with a fork and it would have been the same results.

What the point of getting hung up about what he said, it’s not like GW will miss a few people who either quit or not buy the game because of what he said, not like GW is going to die over night or go up in price. The only reason why RoT is what it’s like is because of the whiners who couldn’t think for themselves to make something challenging.

Yes I solo ******* farm RoT. =P I made something challenging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

RoT, THK and Vizunah Square are there for one good reason...

To root out the idiots, thats why I enjoy the areas after that because there are less idiots around, they can't get past it, so they don't or they ragequit andthe game is a lot more peaceful, playable and enjoyable after these areas

Go back to TGH plz

cthulhu reborn · Feb 26, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

As for considering other rewards... I used the example of money because that's what most people seem to want. Few people want more xp. There could be skill rewards but that would be pointless so far into the game...

I disagree on that...there are plenty of people that still need or want skills even after finishing the game. And not having to spend 1k to try out a couple of skills will not be a pointless reward. I think the fact that you have to pay for all skills now has actually caused a number of people to stop collecting them all for the fun of it cause now it's just walk to skill trader and pay cash. Building up your character is the essence of an RPG...GW has only 20 levels so to take one of those things away from the few things you have left to build up your char seems a real loss.

Besides the last skill trader is in the realm of torment so there is a point to having skill rewards there anyway.

Lonesamurai · Feb 26, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Go back to TGH plz

But its so quiet there... Besides, as a Hybrid/PvE player, i think I'll stay here thank you

Anyway, found something that sums things up nicely:

Even if they quit, they always come back! HAHAHAHAHA

-Loki- · Feb 26, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Go back to TGH plz

Why, because he's correct and you couldn't get past those areas?

Hell Raiser · Feb 26, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

There this thing called freedom of speech everyone has that right, and just like everyone else deal with it. Talk about a double standard, practice what you preach. Discussing things on forums is about as helpful eating soup with a fork and it would have been the same results.

Yeah ok..
1) Freedom of Speech does not apply here, I didn't say he CAN'T write something like that, I said he SHOULDN'T have.
2) I (and I'm sure many others) have had many advantageous from discussing things of forums like this.

Sorry, just accept that you are wrong, RoT is not hard (it sure is annoying and I try to avoid it, but not hard), and he SHOULD NOT have written such a thing.

Chunk · Feb 26, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Loot has never been that important to me.

This is what seperates you from the vast majority of pve players.

We like everything you like, but in order for a difficult and time consuming area to have replayability, it must have good loot.

RoT was refreshing the first time I played it. I just want to point out some obvious logic.

Lets say you have 2 areas in the game:

1st Area- easy fun mobs that are possible to solo with unique builds/ 4K earned when completed

2nd Area- difficult mobs that are impossible to solo without henchies/ 2k earned when completed

Which of these 2 areas would most guildwars players play over and over again. And don't forget that it doesn't just have to do with farming. Many guildies and friends would be more inclined to help out someone if they didn't dread playing the area where help is needed.

Prophecies has many more areas similar to the first. People are flocking back to Prophecies after each new chapter. I feel sorry for those who don't have prophecies.

For many the loot is what determines endgame replayability. Arena Net's commitment to not resembling WoW is what is killing this game.
Its as if some stubborn wammo is running development. Just because the competition does it, doesn't mean its bad. Example! Where is our auction house? Everyone who plays this game agrees we should have one.

I will not buy another chapter unless an auction house is added before its release or the game advertises a new auctionhouse.